VIEW to the U transcribed
Season 8: We Are UTM; Episode #3
Professor Ajay Rao, Vice-Dean, Graduate Studies and Postdoctoral Affairs
Department of Historical Studies
U of T Mississauga
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Ajay Rao (AR): The greatest challenge is also, maybe the most rewarding thing, which is the sense of community.
I think this is really an important part of my role.
My name is Ajay Rao. I am the Vice Dean, Graduate studies and Postdoctoral affairs.
I think we're poised to take this to the next level to help with the graduate student community.
It's really my hope it'll be like, oh, yeah, there's a lot happening in graduate studies at UTM. I think we have to believe in that. We can build things, and we will be able to.
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Carla DeMarco (CD): The Next Level for the graduate student and post-doctoral community at UTM.
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Hello and welcome to VIEW to the U: An eye on the UTM academic community. I'm Carla DeMarco at U of T Mississauga.
VIEW to the U is a monthly podcast that will feature UTM faculty members and students from a range of disciplines who will illuminate some of the inner workings of UTM’s science labs, enlighten the social sciences and humanities hubs on campus, and put a spotlight on our academic community at large.
On the new season called “We are UTM,” I will introduce you to some of the people from our vibrant and ever-growing scholarly community, from some of our newest members of UTM’s leadership team to students who are doing innovative things on the UTM campus.
On today’s episode of VIEW to the U, my guest is Ajay Rao, a faculty member in the Department of Historical Studies, and UTM’s current Vice-Dean, Graduate Studies and Postdoctoral Affairs.
Over the course of this interview, Ajay talks about his own work, including the Global Past project, which recently received funding through a University of Toronto Connaught Global Challenge Award, and is an undertaking that unites several UofT researchers as well as international collaborators.
Ajay talks about the importance of humanities research and also the various initiatives on the horizon and collective efforts to foster a greater sense of community within the graduate studies and postdoctoral community and make UTM a destination for students looking to pursue their master’s and doctoral degrees.
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Ajay Rao is an Associate Professor in the Department of Historical Studies at UofT Mississauga and in the Department for the Study of Religion at the University of Toronto. His research focuses on Sanskrit intellectual history and literature, and religion in South India. He joined the faculty at UTM in 2006.
AR: My field is South Asian religions. I teach in the department of Historical Studies. I've been at UTM since 2006, and of course, we've witnessed lots of changes over that period at UTM, and
So, I teach a range of undergraduate courses. I'm very focused in my research on Sanskrit literature, Sanskrit intellectual history.
CD: And to understand a bit more about your academic origin story, I just wondered if you could speak to how you ended up in this area of research in the first place.
AR: Yeah. So, as I mentioned, I teach South Asian religions. But my real passion is this Sanskrit language, and of course it's been a very, very long time since I started at my academic origins, but back when I was a graduate student.
This is a very romantic kind of way of discovering an academic passion. But I was studying Sanskrit, and I had money to go to India for a year.
CD: and that was your first time going?
AR: No, I had been there many times, but it was my first time going to study, and I had a traditional teacher, and this is very different than the way a modern pedagogy for language is primarily because it's all in the original language through Sanskrit medium. And so, I didn't know the language that well, so this is learning through immersion. But it was so beautiful. I just found it like listening to violin or something. It was just aesthetically, I found it amazing, and I was hooked. And after that I just felt this is what I want to do for my life.
CD: And I know someone told me once - this is their advice for the grad students - just remember if you pick something, this is what you're going to be studying for a really long time, so make sure you enjoy it.
AR: It has to be your passion. Somebody once told me this, that once you find a question that keeps you up at night, that's when you have a dissertation. It's not just a regular thing you're doing. It has to be something you really care about.
CD: Yeah, that's good advice.
I know that your work and research is very much based in the humanities, and that you recently have undertaken a project called Global Past, which is a reinvigoration of humanity's research, and for which you received funding through UofT's Connaught Global Challenge Research Program.
CD: So, of course, if you want to provide some more details about that project in particular, which I understand is a broad collaboration, involving over 20 scholars from various disciplines and international partners, based in Singapore, Egypt and India. But also, more broadly, I guess I was wondering if you could speak a little bit more about how sometimes the humanities research ends up taking a bit of a backseat to some of the other disciplines. But if you could expand on that a little bit about what you hope to achieve with this particular project, in terms of humanities.
AR: That's a great question. So yeah, I think that the story of the humanities that's being told usually nowadays is a very depressing one and the decline of - if you Google “the humanities,” the first thing you'll see is the “decline of humanities.” So, I think we need to change the name or a different association. [laughs]
But I think that this project is a research project, but it also has an institutional component. So, we had envisioned this at first as an institutional grant, and then it morphed into a research grant.
AR: And so, there's a very practical side to it which really goes with my portfolio, as well in terms of forging international partnerships, but also having graduate student presence at UTM. And what we found doing this application for this proposal for this award is that most of our partnerships are focused on North America or Europe. So, the Global South is really underrepresented, and the fact is that the many of the humanities disciplines are extremely old fashioned.
Those who are not humanists might not think this is the case; but when you go all the way from pedagogy to the kind of research that we do, it's very traditional, and there are a couple things we're trying to achieve with this. One is going beyond the
disciplines. So, the disciplines we do feel there's a colonial, sort of eurocentric legacy to the kind of animating questions of the disciplines.
AR: But also, just moving trans regionally is something that you might not think this is radical, but it really is because we work in very small boxes. So, whether you're working in ancient India or medieval Europe, it's very unlikely that scholars research, or that their research network extends beyond those local boundaries. And so, we're pushing against area studies, as well just the fact that the world was connected in a way that our research is not able to capture it.
CD: Yeah, I find that so interesting, and I know one of your collaborators, Professor Jill Caskey in Visual Studies. I know some of this also sprouted from the work that she was doing, but just sort of a rethinking of, when we see some of these large art history books, we don't get the full picture of the other areas. It is very eurocentric, as you were saying, yeah.
AR: Yeah. And Jill’s, her research actually, she's one of the few researchers in our group who actually does some of this. But it's very hard, because the level of expertise and language competence that you need to do. Research in the humanities requires a full dedication to just that. And so that's where collaboration also is very powerful. Where you have someone working on Chinese or Sanskrit or Arabic. It's very unusual people across these different traditions don't talk to each other, and certainly not across disciplines where you have people who work in material culture or philologists in the same room.
CD: And would you say that the Global Past project, though, because I know you mentioned your research is about Sanskrit, and there's some languages represented. Then, of course, with Jill, there's the visual studies piece. So, is it sort of covering all of these considerations?
AR: Yes, I mean, I think there are many different directions. We'd like to branch into, even global philosophy, but I think that we do have sort of areas of strength. There are people who are textualists, and there are people in visual studies working together, and I think that the way we even approach texts and objects are different, based on our disciplines, and we have such an amazing group that we've assembled for this collaborative research project. So, people who are engaged in very interesting international partnerships. We've had great conversations, for instance, with Cairo and Pondicherry about their archives, and so it's very empowering for those institutions as well, because they're talking with us, but they're also talking with each other. It's very unusual for a pre-modernist sitting in Pondicherry to be talking to their counterpart in Cairo, and that's the kind of thing we're trying to facilitate.
CD: That's amazing. I can't wait to see what comes out of this project.
And then I want to ask you about your role as the Vice-Dean, Graduate Studies and Postdoctoral affairs. And so what would you say are your priorities for this term? And I'm sure you've got a list of things that you want to accomplish, but what would you say are your main things that you want to work on?
AR: Yeah, there's a lot that we're trying to do. I would say, in terms of the overall vision, one we feel like this is a really important moment for UTM, something that's been building for a long time. UTM, for many years now, we've been trying to emphasize research activity and graduate-student presence. But I think we're poised to take this to the next level, and we have specific initiatives. So, one of the things we'd like to accomplish is having our own research graduate programs.
This is going to take a lot of work. Obviously, we don't want to duplicate the programs that are already there at St. George.
But things that make sense for our community, our academic community, and it's also an opportunity for newness to create new programs.
There's a lot of creative energy there, and then just the benefits of having graduate students on campus. It has far-reaching impacts.
AR: So, in the lab sciences there's already amazing things happening at UTM that we can continue to help. Support. So, the students are in the labs doing great research. And then there are new developments in the lab sciences, such as the Robotics Lab, which is the labs that they have, are amazing.
But in the humanities and social sciences, as a humanist, I can see a lot of scope for, it's probably something that seems a bit far-fetched now, but I think in a few years it will become normal that we'll have graduate students on campus and the benefits to undergraduate students to the faculty who are engaged in their research, we think, is going to be really powerful.
AR: So, the biggest initiative we have right now is we do get funding for graduate education, and we're using some of our funds for international PhD students. These PhD students will be enrolled in Arts and Science programs, but they will do some research activities at UTM. So, you might have someone engaged in the Global Past or digital humanities, or you know, a robotics lab or whatnot, and some part of their experience will be out here on campus and we can provide support. I mean, there'll be a cohort of these students, so we think it's going to be something really important for us.
CD: And is the recruitment process any different for getting some of these international students?
AR: That's very interesting. We're engaging with this right now, because that requires a lot of partnership. We've had all kinds of conversations. U of T is so massive and intricate. And so, we're working with the graduate programs. But all of the graduate programs are tri-campus. So, it's a really great opportunity for them. It's a win-win situation where they're getting an additional international student, but I think it really can help us make more concrete the tri-campus dimension of a lot of these programs.
AR: I get this, when I talk to people they're like, ‘oh, graduate studies at UTM?’ And I think that it's really my hope, in 10 years it'll be like, ‘oh, yeah, there's a lot happening in graduate studies at UTM.’ I think we have to believe in that. We can build things, and we will be able to.
CD: And is there anything else that you want to add about post-doctoral affairs? Only because I know from having spent some time in the research office sometimes issues in terms of research or just finding funding for postdocs. Is there anything on the horizon for the postdoctoral piece?
AR: Well, this is something very important. I think that, it's 6 months I've been in this role, and this is something that my predecessor, Bryan Stewart, did some work in this area. But it's hard because the post-doctoral students, even less than graduate students, they're not necessarily connected to a community. They're working, maybe independently with a supervisor. But there are a lot of postdocs. I think one place I'd like to start is in the units, where there is a large number of postdocs like Biology or CPS [Chemical & Physical Sciences]. So, this is something certainly on the horizon in the next year, but I think making a sense of community. But that's something that I think this is a UTM general issue is that there's tremendous possibility and potential, but it can be challenging.
CD: I find postdocs are really interesting, because, as you say, they operate very independently, and of course they're not really a student, but they're not a faculty member. They fall in this kind of trainee role.
AR: It's really tough, because they also are here for a short time often. So, you come in as a post-doc, and I think where it can work very well, is if you're embedded in a community rather than I mean the postdocs, if you get a SSHRC [grant] or whatnot it's probably there's a department that's supporting the postdoc, and they have to nominate you and everything else. But then you're working with a supervisor. I mean that's maybe something that we can work on is to try to help departments or centers to connect postdoctoral students with each other, with faculty members with graduate student.
CD: Yeah, getting back to your point about creating that sense of communities. So, they're like their own little network.
AR: That's right. I mean the network. That's a difficult thing, because they're not necessarily connected to each other in terms of their research. So, if you've got like 40 graduate students in a unit, even if 5 of them deal with research that connects to you that's something. But if you're a postdoc, and there's one or 2 other people in that unit, and then there's some other unit: you never would have met that person. It's very challenging.
CD: And so you've talked a little bit about your role as Vice-Dean, and I'm wondering if you could speak a little bit to what would you say are the most challenging, but also some of the more rewarding points about overseeing this particular portfolio.
AR: Yes, I would say just what we were talking about right now. The greatest challenge is also, maybe the most rewarding thing in fact, which is the sense of community. I think this is really important part of my role is to help with the graduate student community and at UTM.
I think that on the one hand, this is the case throughout UTM: but I think the graduate students and postdoctoral students is a place where it's particularly an issue, which is that we're smaller.
AR: So, you can see people, talk to people, get to know them, and you'll see them again. It's not like we’re such a big university that you're lost. But, on the other hand, a lot of students are commuting, and the campus presence is something that we need to keep working on. And I think there's so much to be gained from just being on campus together. And so, this is a challenge, because it's not like we want to create a whole new set of responsibilities or to challenge them to form community. But it's something that we have to provide resources for students. And so, gathering students together, fostering a sense of community, even getting students from different programs to meet each other: this is something I would very much like to achieve, and I'm starting to get to know the graduate students now, but it's a challenge for sure.
CD: And I think that's a long-standing challenge at UTM, at least my understanding of it, and I know these conversations have been going on for a long time. But just the fact that I remember having this chat with grad students, many years ago now, but they said they mainly came to UTM when they had to do some of their TA work, or they were teaching, essentially. But they said, especially, I have to say, some of the students in the humanities. Because there's one thing if your lab is based here, and you're sort of like you say, embedded in the community. But to their point was a lot of the resources, like some of the bigger libraries, things like that, and even some of the management students, a lot of the people that they were connecting with in industry were not necessarily tied to as the Mississauga community.
AR: Well, I think some of these research initiatives can help in this regard. I do think there are things that the University UTM is trying to do for TAs, particularly to provide better spaces for them. But I think that, to use another example of something amazing happening, is the Critical Digital Humanities Initiative [CDHI]. So, if we have students who are all international students are being admitted, affiliated with that and their workshops and activities. And ‘oh, you just happen to be a humanity student?’ Who wouldn’t want to be part of that as well? There can be more to your experience at UTM than just teaching. I do also think, though teaching is something that we can build on the fact that there is this association from students with teaching. And now, you know, we have ISUP [Institute for the Study of University Pedagogy], and I think there's potential for providing more resources to graduate students. So, I think all of this is about yeah, just like what you're saying: you come out to UTM, and if it's more than just your you know two hour or hour in the a tutorial.
CD: Yeah, absolutely. And you mentioned the Critical Digital Humanities Initiative. But I know there's also CDRS, which is the Collaborative Digital Research Space, which is another place that I think, as you mentioned, that having these spaces that students can work in is an extra incentive.
AR: Yeah, I think, though even in the sciences where the students are in the labs, I think that the departments are doing a great job, and the students are very engaged with the departments. But I think there's more that we can do campus-wide part of the social experience of being a student.
There are issues that all graduate students face, funding particularly, which is very hard. Other issues like that which it's limited what we can do, but we can try to help. But I think we can do a lot more creating a culture where students feel there is a good experience.
CD: And so this is one of my last questions. But again, this is meant to be a sort of “get to know you.” Is there anything that you would like to share, something that you enjoy doing that people might not necessarily know about you when you aren't working? Any interesting hobbies or things like that?
AR: I'm not sure how interesting this is [laughs], but we all have things that we do, or that to occupy our time. I am a huge basketball fan, but it's at such a level. I have – probably a lot of people have this - I have NBA League Pass, and so that means I can watch on a given evening - and my partner is very kind about this - and I can watch like 5 or 6 games in an evening, bits and parts of it. And then there are these podcasts, like you're doing this podcast, this whole world of podcasts. So, if I'm washing dishes or doing something in the house, I can listen to, you know, 3 or 4 NBA podcasts, and it's a whole world. So that's something I really care about. I just saw, I was in Cleveland this last week, and I saw a game between the [Phoenix] Suns and the [Cleveland] Cavaliers. And it was so amazing, being in - after the pandemic - being in the stadium and it was so loud. Yeah, so that's one thing that I enjoy.
CD: And do you have a favorite basketball team?
AR: Oh yes. I am very loyal. I'm from Detroit, so, my team is very bad right now, but the Detroit Pistons are who I follow. I watch every game that they play. I don't care how bad they are.
CD: Yeah, I grew up in Windsor, so Detroit – the people like the Pistons, but I always laughed about more of the baseball thing in Windsor, because either you were a Detroit Tigers or Blue Jays, and also hockey was also you either like the Red Wings or the Maple Leafs.
AR: It just depends on which team is good at a given time, I'm sure.
CD: Dennis Rodman used to be on the pistons, right? There's certain people that sort of stick out for you in their past.
AR: Yeah, I know they have a great history. But yeah, I think sports are a good past time for sure.
CD: And do you play basketball?
AR: I play a little bit. I'm not great, but I play a little bit. Actually, one of my nephews was asking me this about, you know, University of Toronto, it's our big public university and their association with the University is sports. So, they said, ‘do all the students go to football games every week?’ So, it's a little different. [laughs]
CD: Yeah, not so much. [laughs]
Well, you mentioned some basketball related podcasts. Are there any other podcasts?
AR: Not really. I some political stuff. I follow the politics in India a bit, and there's it's just amazing stuff that's out there, and you get different viewpoints.
CD: Do you listen to any in other languages?
AR: I listen to, not podcast, but I listen to a lot of stuff in Sanskrit. Actually, yeah, I can listen to some South Indian languages sometimes, their news.
CD: I always hear people say, especially if they're not in the environment where you're hearing that language all the time, the best way to keep it up is by listening to either radio or podcasts.
AR: Of course, it's though very likely the content is very specific. So, if you're not very familiar with the language. But you know languages are cool. Like we're talking about the humanities, everybody should learn languages. It's so dumbfounding to me, this is something we have to convince people of that. It's so valuable.
CD: Yeah, but I'm with you. I listen to podcasts, and I do the same things: when I'm making dinner, when I'm doing dishes, or like folding laundry. It's just like something you can kind of settle in with. And that's again, we were talking earlier before we started recording about whether there's a video involved, but that's kind of the beauty of podcasts is that you don't have to stop to watch anything you can just take it in.
AR: Do whatever you're doing. Yeah, that this podcast people should be doing that, you know. Fold your laundry and listen to Carla.
CD: Well, that's a very good note to end on, and I wanted to just thank you so much. I know you're very busy, so I appreciate the time that you've taken to chat with me today. Thank you, Ajay.
AR: Thank you.
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[Outro]
CD: I would like to thank everyone for listening to today’s show.
I would especially like to thank my guest, Professor Ajay Rao, UTM’s Vice-Dean, Graduate Studies and Postdoctoral Affairs, for being so generous with his time and chatting about his research, as well as his aims for his important administrative portfolio at UTM.
And although I’ve known Ajay for a while, having worked with him on a few of his grant applications over the years, it was great to find out things I didn’t know – like his love of basketball, as well as the fact that he grew up across the river from me in Detroit! I think there are more chats to come on things like Detroit’s fascinating history, their great food culture and art scene – the DIA is a treasure! – as well as the gorgeous surrounding areas like Grosse Pointe or, further out, Ann Arbor, Michigan.
If you are a faculty member or student at UTM, please get in touch with me! I would love to meet as many people from our campus’s scholarly community as possible highlight their work here.
I am back for my seventh year of podcasting at UTM, continuing on with Season 8 and “We ARE UTM” theme.
Also, if you can take the time to rate the podcast in iTunes, it helps others find the show and hear more from our great UTM academic community.
Lastly, and as always, thank you to Tim-Terrific for his tracks, tunes, support!
Thank you!
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