Loridee De Villa and Harleen Kundan in the UTM Library's Outer Circle Recording Studio

Students helping students stay afloat

Carla DeMarco

Podcast duo at UTM help first-year students acclimatize to the university environment with their Fish Outta Water series

Fish Outta Water podcast logo

When Loridee De Villa and Harleen Kundan participated this past year in the Research Opportunity Program (ROP) at UTM, little did they know that by the end of the project they would both become seasoned podcasting partners. But that is precisely the outcome with the recent launch of their podcast series Fish Outta Water.

In the process, they had the opportunity to reflect and draw upon the lessons that they themselves learned at university and then package it up in a way that provides comprehensive and practical advice for students weathering their first years in higher education.

“The ‘Teaching and Learning Resiliency: Teaching Students to Learn from Failure’ ROP that we participated in last year was under the direction of Professors Mairi Cowan and Ken Derry from Historical Studies, and was situated as a part of the larger ‘Failure: Learning in Progress’ [FLIP] ROP project,” says Kundan in a recent interview on the VIEW to the U podcast.

“When we were finishing up coding the data from the student surveys for this project, Loridee and I ended up having a lot of discussions that revolved on what the students were saying, and we did see several connections to our own university experiences.”

Much of their collaborative analysis took place over Zoom calls, adds De Villa, and it was then that they started to conceive broadening out the project as a podcast so others might be privy to their lively conversations with the intention that the content would be geared specifically for students starting out in academia.

“We decided that we wanted to make something – an informal and creative project – that students would actually want to listen to and that would hold some appeal for them, while also not diverting away from our research and the data we collected,” says Kundan

Prior to this venture, neither Kundan, a fourth-year student specializing in history and political science with a minor in sociology, nor De Villa, a third-year student in biology health science with a double-minor in psychology and religion, had produced a podcast. They had also never worked together before. However, the work they each had done individually as part of the ROP had some similarities, and bridging their efforts and teaming up seemed like the next logical step.

Their discussions with Cowan and Derry also spurred them on to take a risk by making a podcast. Their profs expressed that students sometimes hold back when it comes to creative projects. Although De Villa and Kundan considered putting their efforts into making a video at first, they agreed that a podcast could engage the students in a different way and they were motivated by the challenge of assembling the various sources of information they had collected.

“We scripted some of the episodes based on conversations that we had naturally, and we thought students might find the information helpful as well as entertaining” says De Villa.

Loridee De Villa
Loridee De Villa, a 3rd-year student in UTM's​ biology health science

“For the first episodes of this podcast, it was just us talking to each other, analyzing the data, telling our own stories. So, when we created the extended and the bonus content, we included interviews that we conducted that were a natural fit with the material that came from our discussions and the student data,” De Villa adds.

Ultimately, what the duo produced is an edutaining, 12-episode series, which includes four foundational episodes and eight bonus episodes, that they deem an “unofficial university survival guide.”

The bonus episodes comprise interviews and expertise from several scholars: Professor Fiona Rawle from UTM’s Department of Biology on the “pedagogy of kindness” and the nature of the FLIP project; Professor Serena Chen from the Department of Psychology at University of California, Berkeley on self-compassion; exercises that draw on the work of renowned self-compassion scholar Dr. Kristen Neff from the University of Texas at Austin; their supervisors Professors Ken Derry and Mairi Cowan on “destigmatizing failure” and words of wisdom for undergrads based on their own experiences; Professor Krystal Nunes from the Department of Chemistry and Biology at Toronto Metropolitan University on failure, teaching, and learning; UofT MSc candidate Tulip Marawi discusses some university-centered resources, such as mentorship, as well as advice for first year students; PhD candidate Kate Bauer from the Department of History at UofT and her experiences as a grad student; and MSc candidate Milena Russo from UofT’s Cell and Systems Biology on her journey from undergraduate to graduate student. Along the way, they had interesting insights, such as their guests’ varying definitions and notions of what constitutes failure as well as an educator’s impact on student resiliency.

In total, the podcast enterprise took them roughly six months to produce: the writing started in March and the first three main episodes were recorded by April 2022, with their summer spent revising and editing, so that by September they were able to finalize and officially launch the podcast.

“We were just so impressed and couldn’t be prouder of Loridee and Harleen for their creativity – scripting, stepping up to the mic and figuring out the editing piece, and finally making this entire series,” says Derry. 

“Not only did Harleen and Loridee take this opportunity to share what they learned and work in the data to produce some really great content, but they also created a resource to help other students get their bearings when they are just setting out in academia,” adds Cowan. “Their dedication to see this project through and help others is a truly generous effort and a remarkable accomplishment.”

The professors mentioned they intend to flag this podcast for other educators to help promote it more broadly among students, and perhaps lobby for it to be included among the resources that the University offers to students. The podcast also helps to showcase the work of the FLIP project, a team that comprises De Villa and Kundan, as well as several UTM community members: along with Professors Rawle, Cowan, and Derry, there are also Professors Nicole Laliberte (Department of Geography, Geomatics, and Environment) and Dan Guadagnolo (Institute of Communication, Culture, Information and Technology), Jackie Goodman from UTM's Centre for Student Engagement, and UTM postdoctoral fellows in Biology, Jennifer Ross and Maria Dasios. 

Harleen Kundan
Harleen Kundan, a 4th-year student specializing in history and political science at UTM

As for a favourite instalment, both De Villa and Kundan point to episode four, “Breaking the glass and crossing the ocean,” for its practical advice for students to make the most of their university experience and to identify potential support systems, but also there is a lot of humour injected in the episode as it relates to academic failure and foibles. As an entry point though, they agree that the first episode will give listeners a sense of what the podcast and the FLIP project is all about.

And, with their experience with Fish Outta Water, are they hooked on podcasting and possibly introducing another season?

“We aren’t entirely sure about next steps, but with Fish Outta Water we might want to create more episodes in the future, incorporating more of our research, and perhaps reaching out to other participants or leaders with the FLIP project because we only focused on certain data points and there is a lot more that could be covered,” says Kundan.

The main objective going forward for any of their future pursuits is to keep pushing themselves when it comes to being creative and they recommend that for other students as well.

“And truthfully, our hopes for this podcast is just that it really is a resource for students,” adds De Villa.

 “I hope that students can listen to our stories and have a laugh, but at the same time feel inspired by our personal experiences, recognizing that you can move beyond failure. I also hope students know that there are many educators who are looking out for them and there are many resources at the school that are able to help.”


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